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Post by toomuchchanmin on Nov 15, 2015 14:07:45 GMT
So there was a violent protest yesterday in Gwanghwamun. The protest became really violent, and the entire thing became a chaos. The police protesters began to take down police walls and police buses with sticks, while the police began to spray the protesters with strong water mixed with tearjerker chemicals and capsaicin (the thing that goes into hot sauce). Someone apparently got sprayed with water so hard in the head that he got a concussion so bad it is threatening his life. Here is the video of actually happening (hopefully Proboards video work):
There is strong controversy who started the violence first, with the police force accusing protesters of illegal protesting while the protesters claim that they were protesting peacefully but the police caused violence. What do you think?
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Post by erickim on Nov 15, 2015 14:43:23 GMT
All right, so I did some more research about this and found out that this protest is really corrupted. First of all, the video you posted is a good example of abuse of power coming from the government and police and this is not acceptable at all. Police is doing what government told them to do and that is totally ok. They were to protect and stand firm against the angry citizens. However, this kind of violence is probably something government did not told them to do so. Yes, the citizens shouldn't have angered the police that much but hey, government has no right to harm the citizens at all. According to the Constitution of the Republic of Korea(헌법), it is stated that "The sovereignty of the Republic of Korea shall reside in the people, and all state authority shall emanate from the people ". There's another law that is specific for protesting but I don't have the time right now. So, according to Korea's laws, police do not have the right to harm the citizens and also that all powers come from us, the citizens. I guess some force is needed to stop the angry citizens but this kind of action is should not be tolerated.
I came up with a question: Police are doing what they were told to do from the government and they are putting some violent forces against the citizens. Do you think this is justice? or just an example of corruption? and why or why not
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Post by timmy on Nov 18, 2015 5:20:28 GMT
I have a feeling that some of you are mistaking about what happened during the protest. First of all, it was not a protest- it was a riot. Think about it. The protesters brought along farming tools, ladders, and so many equipments that could seriously hurt the police. In other words, it was all planned. And there is the argument that "The sovereignty of the Repulic of Korea shall reside in the people." However, are the police not people, too? They are almost around our age, around 19 to 22. Do they have no right to defend themselves. I'd like to see how some of the other side try to deal with such a violent protest peacefully when they are thrown cans burning with fire, ladders poking their shield, and steel rods smacking their heads. Furthermore, all protests are supposed to be only in designated areas; however, the protesters were trying to go to Blue House, which is illegal. The water cannon thingy was the least the police could do. I'm going to military a year later or the next and think I would have been provoked to take out my gun and shooting if I were them.
Lastly, some of the demands that the protesters were making didn't make sense at all. I do understand how they are against unifying the history textbook- I even agree: it is a deed that the president is doing to make her father look good. Seriously, the nation isn't hers. However, the problem comes when they are requesting certain person to be freed when the case is clear that he deserved the sentence. They are also saying to take all the money away from the rich and give it all to the poor. What the heck is this? North Korean communism? Let them go to North Korea if they want equality so badly.
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Post by jungseunghoon16 on Nov 21, 2015 7:40:04 GMT
I strongly disagree with Jay on his thoughts on unifying the history textbook. Jay, you do realise that they are not "unifying the history textbook?" This is wrong and it should never be done, never in history. The government right now is flapping their arms and losing their minds because of the unstable economy of Korea. This is a wrong decision that should have not come up to consideration.
The history is fixed. You can't change the past, but by agreeing to the unifying of the history textbook, which is called 국정화, enables the president to change the history, and it would change every four years.
Think about it... if our history changed every four years, would the past of Korea matter? I personally think that all of the chaos that is going on in the society of Korea started from the fall of our economy. Due to the fall of the economy, the government needed funding for everything they do, and in order to run this country.
I think the riot in Gwanghwamun is chaotic and violent to the current extent because of how the police responded to the violence of the citizens. I also agree that the riot has turned into a fierce and violent fight between the police and the citizens because the citizens used violence first. However, do you really think that it was right for the police to aim a man that has already fallen and couldn't resist to the police? (in Chan's video) What they did was completely wrong.
There was also another big issue where the police were aiming for the ambulance, who were transporting the wounded and the people that needed medical attention. This is completely wrong because even the medics during a war doesn't get attacked from both sides.
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Post by Emily on Nov 22, 2015 3:20:28 GMT
I actually believe that this video is very one-sided, siding with only the protester's point of view. I also saw a similar video on Facebook, and my first impression of it was similar to yours. However, when I started reading some of the comments people posted, I read that the people had actually started to threaten the police by throwing things at them and hitting them, and the police only finally reacted by spraying them with the hose when they had enough. The police have the right to protect themselves from danger, especially when there is an angry mob of people trying to harm you.
I do feel bad for the old man that was sprayed at and now is in the hospital with life-threatening injuries. But I believe that to react to the video, one must first understand the true story behind what is really going on. The police were just trying to protect themselves from the angry mob, although I do believe that they may have gone a bit too far in their anger.
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Post by sangjoon on Nov 22, 2015 6:07:46 GMT
I understand that people want to express their feelings and ideas by protesting. I think people are keep doing this kind of protest bacause no one will hear their voice if they do not do protest. However, I believe that there's a line in protest. What I mean is that people should not hurt or scare anyone while doinf protesting. They have right to sat their opinion but they don's have right to hurt someone. If they stay on this line, police might not use water tank for it. Then no on gets any hurt and people can uncoolert their opinion more efficiently.
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Post by heesu on Nov 22, 2015 10:31:10 GMT
I think protest is citizens' tragedy in their life. I wonder if citizens are not doing protest, how do they show and tell their opinion towards the government. If we just send letters and tell opinions through website, I don't think that they will listen to the citizens. I don't think that policemen using violence toward citizen is not right. Their job is to protect citizens not president. I think there will be less protests, when government listen to them little bit. The curruption will not released, but it will be hetter to decrease it.
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Post by Jessica (Yeeun) Kim on Nov 22, 2015 12:15:02 GMT
This protest is huge issue in Korea. Both protesters and polices are still discussing that who are truly responsible for starting this violence. In my opinion, they are both responsible because, as Chanmin said, one old protester and many polices are serious injured. During the protest, protesters used iron pipes and bottles of oil to move forward and polices used water cannons to block protesters. Consequently, protesters claim that they will have second protest in Gwanghwamun. I hope this time will have no injuries.
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Post by timmy on Nov 22, 2015 12:29:57 GMT
Seriously people, actually read the posts before agreeing or disagreeing. Some of the posts clearly show that the commentors didn't read my post although they somehow disagree.
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Post by jungseunghoon16 on Nov 22, 2015 14:54:13 GMT
I have the feeling you were talking to me so I re-read your post, and... sorry I saw the last part as something to do with you agreeing on the subject.
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Post by melody on Nov 22, 2015 14:57:04 GMT
I agree with Emily that people should recognize both of the sides of the story. The protestors also showed lots of violence which endangered lots of the police soldiers. However, I do question did the police really had to fire the water cannon right in front of a person? Even if the labor unions had made the violent moves, the police did actually know that the person was standing right in front of the hose of the water cannon which can lead him a serious danger. However, they fired the hose and the man is at the hospital not waking up by the cerebral concussion. The police continued to fire the water cannon to the man and even fired until the people were trying to save him and take him to the ambulance. They were aiming the ambulance who were taking the injured man to their van in order to save his life. I don't think that was the right thing to do. I do think the police still, was overprotective.
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Post by christopher on Nov 22, 2015 15:19:44 GMT
I am just ashamed how Korean politics and the citizens are not understanding each other. If both sides recognize and understand, then this protests wouldn't have happen. The violence in the protest is pretty controversial. People think that the cops are being violent to the protesters, but the protesters were being violent to the cops as well. So both side needs to reconcile and stop this violent protesting.
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Post by anniee on Nov 27, 2015 10:09:37 GMT
To "timmy", the water cannon was the least they could do? I consider it to be the most thing they could have done, aside from shooting. Shooting high-power water at an old man till he got a concussion is not self-defense - this is either a thoughtless following of orders or revenge. This is the police following Park Geun Hye's orders without thinking morally what they are doing to the same civilians or the police's payback for their injuries during the protest. Furthermore, yes, the protest was practically a riot, and the police were possibly at risk, but there is no excuse for ANYONE to take out a gun and start shooting. If you had been there and shot someone, I would have made sure that you get sentenced for voluntary manslaughter. Voluntary manslaughter is an intentional killing that involves no prior intent to kill (was spur of the moment), and which was committed under such circumstances that would "cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed". Sound familiar? If you had killed someone with a shot, voluntary slaughter is the literal definition of the act you had done, and you would have gone to jail for it.
The people were unreasonable in several of their requests. However, when has the middle cluncool ever not wanted to take money away from the rich and give it to the poor? This has been an unresolved issue throughout history, for of course people of lower status feel cheated out of better lives by the mighty conglomerates who stay wealthy by inheritance. This does not mean they want Communism, so I think you should try visiting North Korea and really seeing what "equality" means there if you think the views of the protesters and North Korean Communist society are the same.
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Post by jonah21 on Nov 28, 2015 5:47:42 GMT
Personally, I believe that the water cannon was necessary to keep protesters at bay. However, the way that the police used the cannon was immoral and shouldn't have been done so. By knocking an elderly unconscious at point blank range and continuing to spray water at him while others were trying to help him out shouldn't have happened. Sure, the protesters may have had unreasonable demands, but that still doesn't mean that the police has the right to go and almost kill people. Maybe it was an act of retaliation because of what the protesters were doing. To me, the water cannon should've been at least lowered in pressure so that incidents like this wouldn't have happened.
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Post by Tharu on Nov 28, 2015 10:48:06 GMT
It is not that you either agree or not agree with this problem. Before giving our own opinion about this, we have to know the story from both sides. From the police's side and also from the protestor's side. This discussion we only talk about from the protestors' side, which is because they are the one who got hurt, but not the police. It is probably illegal to do that to people (I dont know about korean law) in the world law, this is against human rights, but what if they protestors are also violating the laws? So the police need to take an action, maybe this one is too harsh, but still this needs to stop. So I cant take a side.
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