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Post by toomuchchanmin on Oct 25, 2015 14:51:00 GMT
Utopia is described as a very wonderful place, where is everyone is happy. But is it really? In my opinion, Utopia seems to have sacrificed free will of individuals in society for the greater good, so there is no freedom. In fact on Utopia's descriptions in thw story sounds a lot like North Korea ironically. Utopia is a Communisum or Socialism society.
What do you guys think?
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Post by 294206aa12 on Oct 31, 2015 12:02:04 GMT
In my personal opinion, Utopia is not that ideal island. It can be true that it is good to be equal in many ways like utopia but in utopia, that equalness make people to become lazy and lead them to not have any desire on their living. I think having desire and being puncoolionate for their survival is one of the most important and also interesting during human's life. Thus, I think utopia is dystopia!
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Post by jonah21 on Oct 31, 2015 12:28:47 GMT
I agree. Utopia does sound like a communist / socialist society. Just like the story, Communism sounds great on paper but when implemented in real life (such as North Korea), it doesn't work out and eventually turned into a dictatorship with one person in lead. In Utopia, everything seems planned for, even up to the amount of agriculture needed. While it claims everyone will be equal, who says that there wouldn't be those that seek power? We've discussed in cluncool how we naturally put ourselves into a hierarchy. I suppose that is what happened to North Korea. Started as a communist country, but slowly turned towards dictatorship. In my opinion, I think that Utopia may happen. It may be possible to develop such a society but it wouldn't last long.
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Post by graceyichen on Oct 31, 2015 12:40:35 GMT
I don't really get the purpose of Utopia. Was it just meant to be a dream world, or did the author think a world like that could actually exist? Because if he expected humans to be the Utopians, then yes the story would be for the most part, very unrealistic and you would be right, but if it were written just as a dream world, then great, it gives us something to reflect upon, something to imagine.
Utopia is based on the fact that all humans have no greed, so there wouldn't even be "a sacrifice for freedom", or the idea of "the self" because none of that logic exists. We wouldn't be looking after our own interests, we would be sharing everything and living with no fear of competition, crime, betrayal...to me, Utopia sounds like a pretty good place to live in.
Also, I don't think the author wrote this story for us to tear down. Why don't we work towards a world like this, instead of criticizing how unsuccessful his ideas would be in the real world. In the story, Utopia is the real world.
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Post by maysamyounis on Oct 31, 2015 15:29:21 GMT
I do not like Utopia for some reason because the some stuff that they have it unsuccessful for reason they believed the female are weaker sex because are not strong, also they work for each other we always Know society form now and past they are always inn different cluncooles in society some are rich and some poor and middle , anyway Utopia culture they have agriculture but they do not have trends which real important, They thing that they have free thinking but real they are not. also they not open society to have idea from different culture .
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Post by juliaj on Nov 1, 2015 7:17:48 GMT
I agree with you. I think that utopia is also very subjective. The Utopia Sir Thomas More described was a utopia that only applied to him. For example, he described that he wanted there to be serfs, and so automatically, to the people who are serfs, it wouldn't be a utopia for them.
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Post by Emily on Nov 1, 2015 8:32:13 GMT
I agree with you that Utopia is not the 'ideal society' that Thomas Moore had hoped it to be. There are some parts of Utopia which may be helpful in creating a more equal community for the people, but also there are many problems and signs of unequalness in his interpretation of a Utopia. I also agree with you that Utopia sounds like a communist sort of society: it is trying to equal everything out for people so that life will be fair and no one is better than anyone else, but here it is not really the case. No matter what kind of society, human nature will take over and create inequality along the way.
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Post by mohahaha on Nov 1, 2015 10:14:50 GMT
Utopia doesn't seem to be an ideal society, since the word 'perfect' everyone has their own definition, which in life no one can achieve perfection that is connected to everything, in the case Utopia if Thomas More wants it to be perfect society of all aspects of life, it's impossible. Therefore the sacrifice was freedom, and equality achieved as in Thomas More's opinion. Overall I think it's more of socialism.
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Post by ETypeRegymon on Nov 1, 2015 11:39:59 GMT
I don't really get the purpose of Utopia. Was it just meant to be a dream world, or did the author think a world like that could actually exist? Because if he expected humans to be the Utopians, then yes the story would be for the most part, very unrealistic and you would be right, but if it were written just as a dream world, then great, it gives us something to reflect upon, something to imagine. Utopia is based on the fact that all humans have no greed, so there wouldn't even be "a sacrifice for freedom", or the idea of "the self" because none of that logic exists. We wouldn't be looking after our own interests, we would be sharing everything and living with no fear of competition, crime, betrayal...to me, Utopia sounds like a pretty good place to live in. Also, I don't think the author wrote this story for us to tear down. Why don't we work towards a world like this, instead of criticizing how unsuccessful his ideas would be in the real world. In the story, Utopia is the real world. I believe in the story the author was describing Utopia (which he visited) to a bunch of scholars, so it's likely that it is his dream utopia, and he's telling the world "wouldn't this be amazing if it was real?", even comparing it to his society at the time where there was little equality. But, I believe there's no way for humans to function by being completely selfless. Ignoring the fact that greed is human nature, I feel that equality will hinder preservation (or life span) if any disaster happens, if not breaking equality entirely. Imagine if there was a crop failure or famine? The effects of food scarcity will cause every single person to starve, and more people would die. They could just only give the food to the more productive people or the healthy so more people would survive in the long run, but then that creates a hierarchy based on either the amount of work or health, breaking the equality. Or, say a tornado hitting only one city will cause imbalance, since the city that got hit will be crippled and lag behind in productivity (kind of reminds me of RPGs when one character dies during a boss battle and they're suddenly 3 levels behind since they missed the EXP), so equality is just too difficult to be done in real life. Also, in the story, Utopia isn't the real world. It's just one, secluded part of the world, and the fact that he's talking to scholars about it means it hasn't caught on in the world of that story. Perfection isn't easy. |
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Post by timmy on Nov 1, 2015 11:46:58 GMT
It seems from the text that the author think of utopia as ideal, because it cannot exist. The reason is that there is human greed- as long as it exists, utopia cannot be made. But in the story, there is no greed; as a result, people can be content with what they have. They do not strive to get any more than they do, unlike North Korea, where the selected few are empowered to control everything and fulfill their greed.
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Post by heesu on Nov 1, 2015 11:48:23 GMT
I don't think that Utopia is a perfect land because I don't think there is a perfect thing in the world. Every new idealism or events have some issues. Due to all different ideas and perspective, there is no such thing as perfect. Many people will suggest different thoughts and opinions in specific options. For example, in Utopia, all things are equal. Some people think that it is a good idea, but some people don't think like that. I think when everything is equal then there is no development and no right judgements because people will think in the same way.
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Post by jin794 on Nov 1, 2015 12:40:51 GMT
I believe Utopia was a mixture of both good and bad conditions. It feels like Utopia is acting like a communism country, where it doesn't have social hierarchy because everything is equal to each other. In Utopia, everyone is equal because there would not be people who try to rule over someone. All humans have no greed so that there would not be a sacrifice for freedom. However, in real life, communism countries are having a hard time. For example, North Korea is a communist country, but they are having a hard time due to bad leader. I believe communism can not ever exist in the world because even though communism means everyone is equal to each other, it is not true. I think communism is just giving government more power, which is very different from definition of "communism".
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Post by erickim on Nov 1, 2015 12:53:43 GMT
I don't really understand the purpose of this Utopia. If the author of this idea was next to me, I would ask what the hell were you thinking? since this is pretty much a place for robots not humans. As soon as you implement human in this idea, everything goes wrong. Humans can not be truthful all the time and from time to time, corruption will happen. There will be hierarchy, social order, and abuse of power when you put humans together.
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Post by mayurika98 on Nov 1, 2015 12:55:50 GMT
Utopia is really hard to imagine. Human nature butts it's head into everything and changes the peace and stability. In our essential question discussions, we were talking about how a person always seeks for escape. Maybe this utopia is the escape More's sought. This question got me thinking about the beginning of time and how the world started out with one society that followed one set of laws and beliefs. Then there was one person who got tired of the same system and wanted to make his own. This is a form of greed as well. The disagreement between the two sides, then leads to war. In my mind war is a form of escape.
Going back to More's Utopia, this is his form of escape and he wants a place where he can call escape. A place where he can live without troubles. In reality you can never really escape from your life because in one way or the other we need to fulfill the responsibilities set for us.
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Post by susansun18 on Nov 1, 2015 13:37:08 GMT
I agree with you Chanmin, I don't think that Utopia is a perfect land for people. It says to let people have more freedom but actually no. They limited the amount time of sleep, work, dress codes, language and so many things. Everything seems nice on the paper but in actual world, it is not perfect as paper says and also, if this is the real life, nobody can and will follow the laws. They are impossible to obey every law. I feel like this is kind of like North Korea because I heard that in North Korea, they have many laws that limit people from many things but they do it secretly anyways.
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