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Post by graceyichen on Nov 22, 2015 6:15:27 GMT
There are a lot of movies that describe a world where everyone is the same, nobody has thoughts of their own, everyone follows the rules...etc. Like The Giver.
I sometimes think, wouldn't a world like that be better to live in as a specie? We wouldn't have advancements because no one would rebel and come up with better ideas, improvements...but at the same time, no one would die, there would be no evil. Well, the few that control our entire specie could be considered evil, but for those of you who have seen the The Giver, the people in charge (Meryl Streep) didn't seem evil to me, they were just keeping order, making sure things worked. Of course, that's because they brainwashed everyone...but I would rather be brainwashed, then see innocent people die and evil exist in the world.
It's a balance. Technological advancements, art, or the freedom to express thought....all these privileges come from individual thinking. But from that also comes evil, and terrible terrible things that humans do to each other. There's a quote from the Quran 5:32, "Whoever kills a person it is as if that person killed all of humankind", I interpret it in general as, "one person's innocent parting, is the death of all of humankind". I just wonder, is all this freedom that we have worth it if people in different parts of the world are dying?
I mean, life is full of ups and downs. You feel happy now, because in the other moment, you felt down. Having art, entertainment, movies in our lives is great, but you still have to return to reality, that's why comparatively they're so great, they're an escape! Same with good things in the world, technology, new stuff, new ideas...innocent people still get killed. Wouldn't it be easier if we just didn't have any of it?
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Post by jonah21 on Nov 22, 2015 7:21:06 GMT
When discussing about brainwashing and it creating a better world, I think about the book 1984. In that society, people are basically being brainwashed as well. The constant changing of history so everything is for the Party makes people uncoolume that the Party is the only good thing and that they must keep it. There's a quote saying that if the 'truth' is changed constantly, people won't know the lies from the truth and just believe whatever they are told. Using that society and its brainwashing, would it truly be a good world to live in? I personally don't think so.
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Post by lucia on Nov 22, 2015 9:47:33 GMT
Interesting thought, Grace! But to be honest, I don't see how everybody being brainwashed can create a peaceful nor the perfect society. We are morally obliged to be curious and seek the truth because that way, we find ease and comfort. Sometimes knowing the truth can hurt us but that doesn't stop us from seeking the truth; we want to understand everything. Brainwashing the society would be going against human nature.
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Post by erickim on Nov 22, 2015 10:09:03 GMT
I'm uncooluming that when you say someone is brainwashed, they have no evil inside them anymore. So, if everyone was brainwashed, I can imagine a more... happy society than now because in my mind, I'm imaging many happy face from everybody. However, that would be boring! Because of greed and desire, humanity was able to progress to right now. If we were to lose our human nature (the evil things), then there would be just peace. No one is killed, no crime, no whatsoever.
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Post by mayurika98 on Nov 22, 2015 12:11:37 GMT
I personally don't like the saying that "Life is short" because life is awfully long. And eventually we are going to die and our thoughts and significance in the world won't matter. Of course we will have remnants but does it really matter when we don't get to see the results? To me, being brainwashed and living the same exact day for our whole life sounds terrible. What would our world be without original thought and the beauty, even in pain?
Of course there are bad things in the world like war and crime and the death of innocent lives. I know, because I have experienced being in a war zone. To be honest, memories like that, helped me become a better person because I learned to appreciate my life more. My mom always says, that when you're time comes to leave the world, there is no stopping it. We don't know what force determines the time or place of our death but, that's just the way it is.
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Post by Jessica (Yeeun) Kim on Nov 22, 2015 12:57:32 GMT
By answering this question, it reminds me a famous novel and a movie. In Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley, the novel demonstrates the world through psychological manipulation and cluncoolical conditioning, which are exemplified when the children are required to daily listen to the law of the society, happiness of their jobs, and sexual education. As a result, the enforcement of this sleep-learning tactic manipulates the children and produces a well- socialized community. Similarly, in the movie, Equilibrium, directed by Kurt Wimmer, the plot is also set in the future when both feelings and artistic expression are illegal, and the citizens are required to administer daily injections to rid themselves of these emotions, thereby creating a lifeless society. Both Brave New World and Equilibrium clearly show how humans can be unsuccessful in manipulated world.
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Post by ETypeRegymon on Nov 22, 2015 13:02:14 GMT
That depends on the circumstances of the brainwashed world. When only the leaders make the decisions, what will they order and how will the people react. I'm going to say no to the question because I've watched an anime where the opening details a world just like that. The difference is is that they are under constant threat from aliens and their resources are scarce, but the basic principle remains the same. No one has control. The result is everyone being thrown to fight a losing battle, the weak and disabled being disposed of, and no advancements to humanity other than warfare. Of course, this is a case where the government has a direct set of goals to follow, but then what happens if survival was the only requirement? Nothing if we're in Utopia, but chances are it'll end as a dictatorship. The top will reap all benefits while the rest suffer.
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Post by toomuchchanmin on Nov 22, 2015 13:33:30 GMT
I agree with Reggy, it depends on who is leading. If the leader is so faultless and have no desires for himself, I think that a perfect world can be made. The problem is there is no such thing as a perfect leader, because all leaders in the end, are all human. No matter how hard they try there will be some selfish side to every leader. But also most dictators who have all power turn into psychos, most noticeably Kim Jongun. North Korea is a supposed "perfect world", but we all know that is not the case. It may be one of the worst places in the world. So the conclusion is, brainwashing will never make a perfect world because of human faults.
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sunnyp
Junior Member
Posts: 92 
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Post by sunnyp on Nov 22, 2015 14:52:21 GMT
Yes. I have thought about this while reading the Brave New World and I kept thinking to myself I actually would have no problem living in that dystopian society. I think living brainwashed will be fine because happiness will be guaranteed. I feel like The Giver is a weak brain-wash because it was possible for people to easily stop themselves from being brain-washed (just by not taking the pills) and rebel. But in a completely brain-washing society like the Brave New World, it is impossible to "know the truth" and therefore your happiness, or satisfaction is guaranteed. Yes, it would defiantly be easier to live in a society like that. It would be living by compulsion. It would kind of be like living as animals, but why not. No one is happy with the society anyway.
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Post by timmy on Nov 23, 2015 3:29:17 GMT
We all want to be free from both the physical and emotional stress. Manipulation sometimes works in that. That's why I think that nothing can be pure evil nor pure good. For instance, when North Koreans are brainwashed in the greatness of their country, I believe that part of them WANTS to believe the lies, just to make themselves feel better.
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Post by Emily on Nov 28, 2015 7:17:46 GMT
I actually think that the people in charge were evil, in that they wanted total control over the people who could not feel or think for themselves (I haven't seen the movie, so I'm basing my thoughts off the book). Everything in that society was chosen for them; their jobs, their spouses, their siblings; nothing was left to choice. And although this may have seemed fair and equal for them at the time, there will always be exception to the situation, in this case Jonas (the main character) and the Giver.
You said that innocent people are always getting killed due to our technological advances. While this is true, isn't it also true that more guilty people are getting convicted of their crimes? Our world has always been a dangerous place, and always will be, no matter how hard we try to make it safe. It is all part of human nature, and there is no changing that.
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Post by sangjoon on Nov 29, 2015 4:39:54 GMT
My answer for your question is No. This is because people lose the identitiy of thinking when they once get brainwashed. Although people are able to have a better ideas and better solutions, it is useless when they got brainwash manipulation. I don't think that brainwash manipulator has the best idea and the smartest idea. In other words, having brainwash other people is not good for everyone for better world.
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Post by heesu on Nov 29, 2015 11:44:31 GMT
I don't think that brainwashing will make a better world because when people have same ideas and knowledge, there will be no improvement. The world is running around because people have different ideas and knowledge. I think people should have their own way of thinking and we have to know how to interact with those different thinking order to make a better world. I think people are only belief their thinking, so their is corruption each other. When we know how to listen and adapt other people's think instead of brainwashing, we can make the better world.
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Post by jin794 on Nov 29, 2015 13:23:28 GMT
I think brainwashing is not necessary in our society. For example, Rwanda genocide is a case that shows brainwashing is unnecessary part in our society. After Rwanda gained independence from Belgium, the Hutu nationalist group Parmehutu ruled Rwanda from 1961 by killing and exiling 200,000 Tutsis. In 1985, a political group of Tutsi formed the RPF (Rwandan Patriotic Front) to regain their rights in Rwanda, and invaded Rwanda in 1990. The anti-Tutsi sentiment varied, but the government actually ordered Rwandan citizens to kill their neighbors. In this case, the Rwandan government manipulated or brainwashed them into thinking Tutsis were the ultimate enemy. The government instilled fear in the Hutu by telling them lies and inciting fear in them so that they could kill Tutsis. When the government in control of the media and what citizens see and hear, citizens have all their weakness exposed and have no choice but to be manipulated by the government.
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Post by anniee on Dec 6, 2015 4:25:35 GMT
I think brainwashing isn't the answer to the perfect society. Having no art, entertainment, or movies would be nothing different from Thomas More's Utopia, and we already discussed in cluncool that though his ideas were well-thought-out and supposed to be beneficial to the community, nothing would truly work out when real, thinking people are placed within the society. People find loopholes to get their way. Human nature consists of greed and curiosity, and there will eventually be someone who believes that brainwashing is wrong and acts out. Is the stagnation of progress really worth the brainwashed society? What society in which everyone is the same offers is not a balance; it is the sacrifice of advancement.
Look at North Korea. We learned from the stories of the refugees that citizens are brainwashed by the Kim regime. To them, Kim Jong Un is their God, their savior if an alien attack should ever commence. However, why do so many still choose to escape Korea at the risk of their lives? They realized that the lives they are living are not their only option. They realized that Kim Jong Un is not actually their Messiah, their perfect ruler. They wanted a better chance for survival and to explore the society the modern world has become, and so they chose escape just to catch a glimpse of this future for themselves.
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