|
Post by graceyichen on Oct 3, 2015 5:10:27 GMT
When we compared Beowulf, and Sir Gawain, and discussed what character out of the two stories we liked best, I didn't really like any.
I focused on the protagonist of each, and the main reason why I didn't like either was because I thought Beowulf and Sir Gawain were both pretty arrogant. And this made me think of other heroes such as Gilgamesh, Achilles, and many brave soldiers or kings in my culture, and I realized most of them were arrogant too. Is their arrogance the reason for their success as heroes? If they weren't arrogant, which to me also means being fearless in a way, would they have not achieved their victories?
I think yes. Arrogance is the result of too much confidence, but thats what separates famous heroes from other confident but brave men. Well, I don't know why we don't remember the nice heroes as much as the arrogant and super powerful ones. Maybe because they accomplish more, since they're too arrogant to consider anything other than their goal, they reach it efficiently. Even if they end up poorly, like Beowulf still fighting that dragon, I can't deny that they do things other people can never. And if we didn't have heroes with precision and arrogance, our civilization wouldn't progress as fast.
What do you think, is arrogance something heroes share?
|
|
|
Post by jonah21 on Oct 3, 2015 10:38:45 GMT
I agree. Arrogance is possibly found in heroes. However, I believe that is the case because we believe it to be so. When Googling the definition of a hero, I came across this definition: "A hero is a person, typically a man, who is admired or idealized for courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities." Take a look at that word, idealized. We have our own ways of telling who is a hero and who isn't, but is the person we consider a hero truly a hero? Cliched hero stories would probably go something like having strong powers, being brave, and having some sort of downfall. This can be seen with Beowulf. Even with modern heroes, this applies. Iron Man in the Avengers is able to fight crime with his suit (strong powers) and save the world by controlling the rocket to go into the portal to space. As the movie shows, he supposedly "dies" (his downfall) coming back to Earth. His personality shows his bravery and also his arrogance.'
I find that arrogance in heroes is the reason why they are heroes. They don't seem to be held back by other concerns and focus on those that are for their own goals and such. I believe that arrogance is what makes a hero.
|
|
|
Post by Tharu on Oct 4, 2015 0:38:21 GMT
I agree with you two of you, in my opinion as jonah said the word "Idealized" could be big thing because, these are all stories and obviously those heroes didn't write those stories, probably some other guy in that culture wrote these. And that person who wrote the story is a normal person who look at these heroes as the "Ideal Man" So they are kind of proud of them, so the author tend to write all the cool stuff about the hero, so other people also would think, ohhh this hero is a cool hero and he has no fear towards anything.... So it is just I think the author's opinion towards the hero, that hero is having arrogance or not, but it could be different too.
|
|
|
Post by timmy on Oct 4, 2015 2:32:55 GMT
I agree that arrogance is a trait that many heroes share. (I won't say all since that's too absolute) I think the reason is that when a person is idealized and looked upon, that person feels superior to all others. In a sense, this is understandable, for it is all part of human nature. This is why Achilles, Gilgamesh, and so many other heroes felt arrogance- people looked to them as though they were gods. What I want to say is that arrogance cannot be self made- it is only others that make a person arrogant, just as it is people and not oneself that makes one evil.
|
|
sunnyp
Junior Member
Posts: 92
|
Post by sunnyp on Oct 4, 2015 12:22:41 GMT
This made me think about heroes and arrogance and I thought about Avengers. None of the heroes in that movie are necessarily arrogant except for the Iron man. Arrogance doesn't make Iron man more hero-like but Iron man is definitely most loved hero out of the Avengers. I think that is because arrogance shows human-like side that we normal people can relate to. Iron man keeps on making mistakes that derives from his arrogance and I think that is one reason why he is so likeable. What I am saying is, arrogance is not necessary character trait of heroes but many heroes have it to have a vulnerable human side.
|
|
|
Post by chris9280 on Oct 4, 2015 13:28:46 GMT
Yes, most of the heroes that we read were too arrogant. However, they are the heroes after all. They saved the town, country, and world. I think they have all the right to be arrogant. Most of the heroes were super human and had abilities all of us can only dream of. In the process of writing the story, may be the author wanted to point out that the heroes’ price for saving the world may be for them to be arrogant.
|
|
|
Post by melody on Oct 4, 2015 14:15:03 GMT
No, actually, nowadays, it's more hard to see arrogant heroes around us. Most heroes, or at least, the heroes we agree with, don't have arrogance at all. They are modest, humble, polite and cautious. However, in some superhero movies, there are heroes that has arrogant characteristics but, it only seems to happen in the movie not in real-life. My answer for this question is no, there might be in movies, but not in real-life. This is because, when we consider someone as a hero, we now, observe their personalities and consider their modesty as one factor to be a hero.
|
|
|
Post by susansun18 on Oct 4, 2015 14:58:55 GMT
I don't really think that it is arrogance that leads them to be heroes but arrogance is just something inside their human nature that they couldn't overcome. As we discussed in cluncool, arrogance is a factor of human nature and everyone possess arrogance. Just because they are heroes doesn't mean that hey don't possess human nature. Ever individual has human nature and arrogance comes from that meaning that anyone could become a hero but the level of controlling human nature depends on that persons skills.
|
|
|
Post by christopher on Oct 4, 2015 15:15:27 GMT
It seems like in most heroic stories, arrogance is one of the most popular traits for a hero to have. For example, Gilgamesh and Iron Man had arrogance and they are both heroes in heroic stories. I wouldn't really say arrogance is our human nature but pride is. Pride and arrogance kind of goes the same but does not. Pride is more of being proud to one's self while arrogance is absolutely believing that one has the ability to do all things.
|
|
|
Post by toomuchchanmin on Oct 4, 2015 15:22:19 GMT
Well, many heroes are usually arrogant because heroes usually have to do great things that need a lot of willpower. Also arrogant heroes I guess are more easier to write for writers, because when a hero does something really good without no reason, the excuse can be just "HE'S ARROGANT".
|
|
|
Post by mayurika98 on Oct 7, 2015 11:46:37 GMT
It's really hard to connect this idea to real life because most of the heroes we see in these stories have some special powers like immortality or superhuman strength. Of course Sir Gawain did not have nay of this, but he still was a knight and he probably got to that position because he earned it. I don't think it takes much to become a hero even though you are only a hero to a few people. When it comes to people who commit acts of kindness without looking for anything in return we cannot say that they have arrogance in themselves. Some people do good deeds for attention and some do it out of kindness. Widgaf seemed to me like the most realistic person in Beowulf. I wonder for what reason he truly decided to help Beowulf. Was it really because he felt bad and had respect for the king, or did he expect glory in return. We are able a see a side of him, when he offers to lead the people to where the treasure after Beowulf's death. Di he humbly accept the glory or was he arrogant with his pride? I think he was a bit of both.
|
|
|
Post by anniee on Oct 11, 2015 3:52:54 GMT
I agree that arrogance is a common characteristic among many heroes. In many occasions, arrogance and pride appear to serve as the protagonist's fatal flaws, the traits that lead to his/her downfall in the story. Many heroes have almost supernatural qualities, such as Beowulf with his enormous strength, which is how they defeat all the villains and antagonists in their respective plots. With these "powers", heroes are bound to have an abundance of confidence, which often becomes arrogance. This is similar to when we studied Julius Caesar in sophomore year, as we found out that Brutus believed that people with influence in the government eventually become corrupt, which is why he had to murder his friend Caesar.
However, I don't think arrogance is necessarily a required trait of heroes. The other "confident but brave men" that you mentioned could be heroes, too. George Washington became first president for leading the colonists during the American Revolution, but there was never any news of how self-absorbed he was during his presidency (he even gave up the title after two terms to avoid a buildup of power in one person). Martin Luther King Jr. became famous for standing up for African Americans, but he was originally a pretty conservative and gentle man. Real-life "heroes" don't have to be self-centered in order to reach the status that they have become worthy of. Civilization does not have to progress with egotistic leaders holding the reins.
|
|
|
Post by Emily on Oct 11, 2015 4:28:49 GMT
I agree with you that arrogance is a pretty common trait among heroes or protagonists of stories. Beowulf is especially arrogant, confident that his skill and prowess as a warrior could defeat Grendel in battle. I think that once a certain degree of accomplishments have been completed, the hero/person will feel overconfident that they will be able to do anything because they had all these accomplishments, so that is what leads to their arrogance. However, there are certain exceptions to this, such as Gawain who acted humble and modest through the whole story of the Green Knight, and other heroes, too. I found it interesting that you found Gawain to be arrogant. We talked about in cluncool of how humble he was compared to other knights such as Arthur, and that he was very respectful to everyone and acted especially modest, especially to the lady who tried to flirt with him. I guess we all have our different opinions of characters.
|
|
|
Post by jungseunghoon16 on Oct 11, 2015 7:14:43 GMT
I also think that many heroes share arrogance and it is a common characteristic among heroes such as Sir Gawain, or Beowulf. I think that the source of Arrogance comes from pride of a person such pride displayed in the characteristics of Beowulf. He was arrogant because he had too much pride in himself and was confident about his skill sets as a warrior. It always happen among novels and stories that we read or even modern movies that we watch. The protagonist or a hero or even any character in a film is usually arrogant in some way and is taught a lesson by another person. Learning that lesson, or even that lesson is the moral of the story. I think arrogance in a character leads to a moral of a story because we, as audiences learn something from the arrogance displayed in the story.
|
|
riyadh
Junior Member
Posts: 59
|
Post by riyadh on Oct 11, 2015 11:42:52 GMT
from what I see is that not all of them do share the same thing but they do maybe some are arrogant and that could use to be a good thing and bad thing , cause that might makes you to go to another level and on that place you can see if it good or bad thing ...
|
|